We all know we 'should' be able to fly the flag of our country and our communities without any problem. I feel we should be able to have a grown up
discussion about why we can't. Anybody using the flag of this country and our communities as a cover for criminality and intimidation does not represent 'the colours' of the nation and it's communities though.
A future where every school, every library and community centre has a flag of the nation, and even a flag of the county ( or borough for London etc.. ) flyung on a real flagpole of some kind, and people flew the flags in their own gardens and kept them flying sounds appealing to me.
I mean, people can and do. But flags are inherently problematic. Even if you could remove any historical connotations (we can't) or had a new flag, they will be a complicated part of current politics, as we are seeing. And if it becomes a national habit, can imply approval of the current actions/policies of the state or other political sub-division, where an accepted larger meaning isn't agreed and explicit (and even then...).
Other countries have a culture as you describe and that's their choice (e.g. US, scandinavian nations). The fact that I find it inherently creepy anywhere says more about me maybe.
But in England specifically, the flags were 'captured' by racists and thugs post-war. Despite progress with sports, particularly football, shaking some of this off, the connection in some peoples' minds is real and, unfortunately, that still includes worst of us, now that they feel empowered to crawl out from under the rocks they were slowly being pushed under.
Once created and agreed upon most things are obviously very hard to change, but as.with all things in human cultures - change they will, we make it all up as we see relevant. It is our business to keep or make things relevant. I like the union flag, and the English flag, it.would be good if they were treated better and flown more, rather than being used as a banner. You are right.the cross of St.George does scare a few people here and it obviously shouldnt. We shouldn't be shy talking our identity though. All cultures have to constantly ask: who am i? who are.we? We have to create every day the answer to both questions, in tiny ways, mostly unoticed. I like the union flag, many people that never set foot in England risked thier lives for it, but what the flag stands for changes as we change, and even if the average person had no say in the creation of the symbols and flags of the community, they do have a great say in what they mean.
I just had a vision of an allied social media campaign: "Respect the Colours"
No man should raise the flags while in disguise, no masks no scarfs or false mustache
No man shall raise the flags in dead of night, the colours are to be unfurled and seen by light of day for all
The flags should fly from a pole, any pole, not used as drapes, or curtains, but to catch the wind for all to hear and see
Any man who flys the flags upside down should be banished from society to spend his days under holy order, toiling in the monastic vegetable garden, and his nights praying to St George for forgivness.
One tradition i hope never dies is the British sense of humour.
If the people removing the flags are in danger of being 'spotted' didn't anyone spot the people putting them up in the first place? Looks like it must have been a fairly major operation, all the way along the A2 including Chatham Hill.
The irony is that far from uniting people under a symbol of pride, the campaign has only highlighted division. Some residents see the flags as harmless patriotism, others as a not-so-subtle show of far-right influence. Then we have the Facebook detectives, trying to identify anyone suspected of removing the things. Whatever this is, it isn’t a feel-good display of local spirit.
To woke for me I might have to cancel my subscription
Can we get a definition of 'leftie-looking people'? It could be fun.
and far right - as there appears to be no middle ground .
Absolutely Crackers
We all know we 'should' be able to fly the flag of our country and our communities without any problem. I feel we should be able to have a grown up
discussion about why we can't. Anybody using the flag of this country and our communities as a cover for criminality and intimidation does not represent 'the colours' of the nation and it's communities though.
A future where every school, every library and community centre has a flag of the nation, and even a flag of the county ( or borough for London etc.. ) flyung on a real flagpole of some kind, and people flew the flags in their own gardens and kept them flying sounds appealing to me.
I mean, people can and do. But flags are inherently problematic. Even if you could remove any historical connotations (we can't) or had a new flag, they will be a complicated part of current politics, as we are seeing. And if it becomes a national habit, can imply approval of the current actions/policies of the state or other political sub-division, where an accepted larger meaning isn't agreed and explicit (and even then...).
Other countries have a culture as you describe and that's their choice (e.g. US, scandinavian nations). The fact that I find it inherently creepy anywhere says more about me maybe.
But in England specifically, the flags were 'captured' by racists and thugs post-war. Despite progress with sports, particularly football, shaking some of this off, the connection in some peoples' minds is real and, unfortunately, that still includes worst of us, now that they feel empowered to crawl out from under the rocks they were slowly being pushed under.
Once created and agreed upon most things are obviously very hard to change, but as.with all things in human cultures - change they will, we make it all up as we see relevant. It is our business to keep or make things relevant. I like the union flag, and the English flag, it.would be good if they were treated better and flown more, rather than being used as a banner. You are right.the cross of St.George does scare a few people here and it obviously shouldnt. We shouldn't be shy talking our identity though. All cultures have to constantly ask: who am i? who are.we? We have to create every day the answer to both questions, in tiny ways, mostly unoticed. I like the union flag, many people that never set foot in England risked thier lives for it, but what the flag stands for changes as we change, and even if the average person had no say in the creation of the symbols and flags of the community, they do have a great say in what they mean.
I just had a vision of an allied social media campaign: "Respect the Colours"
No man should raise the flags while in disguise, no masks no scarfs or false mustache
No man shall raise the flags in dead of night, the colours are to be unfurled and seen by light of day for all
The flags should fly from a pole, any pole, not used as drapes, or curtains, but to catch the wind for all to hear and see
Any man who flys the flags upside down should be banished from society to spend his days under holy order, toiling in the monastic vegetable garden, and his nights praying to St George for forgivness.
One tradition i hope never dies is the British sense of humour.
Bless em all, innit
If the people removing the flags are in danger of being 'spotted' didn't anyone spot the people putting them up in the first place? Looks like it must have been a fairly major operation, all the way along the A2 including Chatham Hill.
The irony is that far from uniting people under a symbol of pride, the campaign has only highlighted division. Some residents see the flags as harmless patriotism, others as a not-so-subtle show of far-right influence. Then we have the Facebook detectives, trying to identify anyone suspected of removing the things. Whatever this is, it isn’t a feel-good display of local spirit.
To woke for me I might have to cancel my subscription
What do you think woke means in this context?
Agree except for the last bit.
So please stick around.