“I will talk about things that people don't want to talk about”

What Steven asked Cllr Andrew Lawrence, Shadow Cabinet Member for Regeneration, Community, and Housing

Andrew Lawrence was elected as a Conservative councillor for Hempstead and Wigmore in 2023 and is now their spokesperson for Regeneration, Community, and Housing. Steven met Andrew at the Chatham Dockside Starbucks, where they discussed the Local Plan, the local election, Brexit, covid, and whether elected representatives should be judged on historic social media.

Cllr Andrew Lawrence

Was it a conscious choice to stand for the council in Hempstead and Wigmore?
Yeah. I'm a strong believer that you should live where you represent. It's not always possible, but when I was a Lewisham councillor, I lived in the ward I represented. In 2019, when they asked me to stand in Watling Ward, I wasn't particularly happy. It was very much last minute and it wasn't the ward where I lived and that result showed you the local candidates did much better than the candidates who didn't live in the ward.

Hempstead and Wigmore had big shoes to step into.
Yeah, obviously Diane and Rodney Chambers, massive shoes to step into. But actually I think our vote held up really well in that election, Jim Gilbourne and I. Jim does a much better job with the local community than I do. He's just that much more involved, but I think as we go around and meet people and solve the small number of problems we have in Hempstead and Wigmore, it's a great ward.

Talking of the last local elections, what wasn’t a great night for Medway Conservatives was still a good night for Rainham Tories?
Yeah, I think a net loss of one, and that was primarily because Watling ward went to three seats from two seats at the previous election. Really what undid the Medway Conservative Group was the boundary changes in Rochester, but also the anti-government feeling that was on the doorstep. I saw that very much in the General Election as well. I think it's quite humbling, not so much for me because I was a new councillor, but to see colleagues who'd served for many years having to go into opposition. But people have transitioned quite well, and I think as an opposition group, I think we're doing a good job. I reflect on when I'm in Overview and Scrutiny particularly, we get a portfolio holder turn up and talk about things that they don't know anything about, which is quite funny. When I look at the other side, I'm not that impressed. If you look at any of the recordings of O&S, whilst I wouldn't recommend you gave up the entire evening, there are some good meetings, and most of the questioning comes from the Conservative side rather than the other side.

What is your role in the Shadow Cabinet?
I've got the Regen-housing-culture portfolio. It's a ridiculously large portfolio and it's pretty much impossible for the O&S to really scrutinise that massive directorate in the way we are. I think if we were to win the council next time, we'd probably look very closely at that. I think given the issues around housing, both new housing, temporary housing, the council's own housing stock, it would make more sense to hive the housing bit off into its own portfolio, into its own O&S, so that a bit more attention could be given to it. We can hear a bit more from the community, because the community are really affected by new housing in particular. I have monthly meetings with the director. I've been talking to him not only about what's going on, but they’ve also got to find a £10m saving in that directorate, and there’s just not that money to save without stopping doing things.

With housing, isn’t part of the situation we are in at the moment a failing of the previous Conservative administration?
The failure to deliver a Local Plan… (pause) …is a problem.
With a massive amount of hindsight, for someone who wasn't in the last group, I think Alan (Jarrett) should have forced the Local Plan to a full vote. It would have forced Vince Maple to have voted for it. Now if he had voted against it, he could never have done what he has done, a constant charge of ‘You didn't deliver a Local Plan.’ Alan probably would have had to have relied on Vince and the Labour Group to vote for it. But at least we would have got a Local Plan. I think the authority has spent a huge amount of money fighting development through the appeals process that are still being approved. Where I am in Hempstead and Wigmore, we’ve got Gibraltar Farm, East Hill, the Lidsing village. Albeit that's not part of Medway, but there, once again, why wasn't Lidsing dealt with under the last boundary changes and bought into Medway? I do wonder sometimes. The real problem about housing is since 1997 we've had a massive explosion in the population. You can't import 10 million people (into the UK) and go there isn't going to be a housing problem, I bought my first house when I was 20. I paid just under £30,000 for a two-bedroom house in Suffolk. I've done very well in housing. I look at my three children, my 22-year-old, my 19-year-old, my 17-year-old, and without a £50,000 or £60,000 deposit, they're not going to be buying anywhere in Medway anytime soon. Medway's cheap compared to southeast London where I came from. We have to build houses. I've done a lot of work on this. There's been lots of really great discussions. We're trying to be positive.

Since the local elections, there's been a little bit of a turnover within the Conservative Group. Is there a reason why you never went for leader or deputy leader?
No, I didn't. Clearly, I didn't have the support. There was no point pushing myself forward. I'm a pragmatist in these things. I think there was an opportunity for us to get behind one, especially from Gillingham and Rainham, having the largest group of councillors. It seemed obvious that the leader should come from Gillingham and Rainham.

The first time round the leader and the deputy leader didn't come from Rainham.
No, but I think that was very much an interim. We needed a year. Adrian Gulvin was absolutely amazing. He said, ‘Look, we're going to take a bit of a kicking. I'll take the kicking whilst we get ourselves sorted.’ I think George Perfect has proved to be a tenacious leader. He's certainly raising our profile amongst the LGA, amongst national Conservative organisation, he's done an amazing job.

Were you surprised when two of the group left to become independent?
More disappointed. Personally disappointed because it's not only the disloyalty, but it's also all the people who came out and helped Liz (Turpin) and John (Williams) get elected and I hope they're reflecting on that. Whilst the group is a very different group to the one under Alan Jarrett, some people just can't let the past go. That first year of opposition, we've had to work hard to forget the things that went on in the previous administration and focus very much on our job of being a credible opposition. I think we've done a good job, setting plans for the future. We've got some big changes because some of my colleagues are getting to the end of their local government careers. There will be another influx of new councillors. Hopefully we'll have control of the council. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

You’re on the Local Plan Working Party. Is that working?
It's more of an input. There's no debate. There's no decision making. It's more about Dave Harris (Medway Council Chief Planning Officer) and his team giving us updates on the Local Plan. I can now tell you, from that working party meeting, the final plan for Medway won't be delivered until December 2026. This is quite interesting politically, because if it leaks into 2027, the Local Plan could become a big part of the election campaign in May 2027. I think the timeline is very tight. There's a lot depending on whether the Planning Inspectorate have got people available to listen and to do the examination. I'm a bit concerned that the changes to the National Planning Framework, whether our plan actually is entirely compliant with that. It'd be interesting to see how that develops. Still not sure why we just didn't pick up Alan Jarrett's plan and push that through. I'm not sure whether there was a legal issue. We've done two Regulation 18s. I know Vince has been concerned about getting a Labour government elected, he's had to be dealing with fighting at Christmas parties…
‘Internal wranglings.’
Thank you. Now he's got a really big problem. Three of these key people are MPs and will undoubtedly want to focus entirely on that. It's not exactly deep with talent in the Labour Group. It's how they get some of this over the line. This is now, let's be very clear, Medway Labour's Local Plan, and Tris Osborne, likes to say, ‘The tent is very big’ when there are big decisions to be made. It's very tiny when they just want to push through their stuff. They're already trying to say this is joint working and we're going to do this on a cross-party basis, but this is their Local Plan.