"If you don’t have access to justice, then those rights are just ideas"
What Steven asked Graham Colley, Liberal Democrat candidate for Kent Police and Crime Commissioner
Graham Colley is standing to be Kent Police and Crime Commissioner for the Liberal Democrats in the upcoming election. Steven caught up with him on Zoom to discuss why he never stood for Medway Council, why we need legal aid, and why we shouldn’t have Police and Crime Commissioners in the first place.
Where were you born?
In Nottingham.
What brought you to the Medway Town?
A long story, but my wife was from Thanet. She got her articles of clerkship in Maidstone, and I came to Maidstone.
What jobs did your parents do growing up?
They were both medical GPs.
How did you find school?
I found it stretching in terms of ability. I did better as it went on until, eventually, I went to university.
What did you study at sixth form?
I studied Politics, Economics, and English.
And then at university?
I studied Law.
What political parties have you been a member of?
I joined most political parties when I was at university at the fresher’s fair, and eventually came to follow my beliefs as a liberal.
When did your name first appear on a ballot?
In the 1980s. In ‘86, I stood for the county council in Walderslade in a by-election.
How did you do?
I didn't win, I remember that.
Were you a paper candidate?
It was. It was an introduction to the election campaign, the election that was expected. I was the Lib Dem candidate for Mid Kent as it was then. That included Chatham and part of Maidstone, going down to Lenham.
What was your first full-time job?
It was as a trainee solicitor.
What’s your official occupation now?
I am a solicitor.
What additional roles, paid or unpaid, do you do?
I am the President of Lib Dem lawyers, otherwise known as Rights, Liberties, Justice.
What is it that the association does?
It is an organisation that considers policy with the Liberal Democrat party. We have webinars, we have conferences, meetings, and discussions on how we should protect rights, civil liberties, and access to justice.
What do you think of the government’s actions regarding legal aid?
(sighs) They have been taken, and there is virtually no legal aid now. We fought against it when it happened. I spoke at a party conference, and we had an emergency motion on the government's legal aid proposals. It was carried almost unanimously that we were highly critical of them.
At the risk of asking a stupid question, why is legal aid a good thing?
It follows from what I mentioned. You can have civil rights, you can have human rights, but if you don’t have access to justice, then those rights are just ideas. You can't put them into practice. Almost no one can afford to take matters to court nowadays and therefore they need legal aid to do so.
What does your average day entail?
Dealing with various client matters. As a day job, I specialise in wills and inheritance. That ranges from dealing with people who wish to make wills to dealing with probate matters, sometimes contentious, and it is a very full day.
Who has been the best Prime Minister of your lifetime?
That is a difficult one to ask a Liberal Democrat. Although I was very critical of him at the time, Harold Wilson. That government brought in lots of social measures under Roy Jenkins, who obviously became a Liberal Democrat and formed the SDP, but his work involved the abolition of capital punishment and brought in social reform, like abortion, and the first steps to gay equality.
Is there anywhere you'd like to go for dinner in Medway?
A number of places, but I won’t advertise them.
What has been the biggest improvement to Medway in the last 25 years?
It took a long time, but the dockside development by Rochester railway station. It was standing empty, and it is there. I suppose there were better ways to do it, but at least it is happening.
What is your favourite unimportant thing to do?
I like cycling, but that is quite important for me for exercise. I like cycling and traveling around different parts of Kent, traveling down tracks that are not seen when you go by car.
You were a county councillor on Kent County Council for Medway South, and you successfully held that seat in the follow-up election. Why did you never stand to be a Medway councillor for the unitary authority?
It was practical concerns for my legal practice. I spent a lot of time on the county council, which took up daytime involvement, but work called.
You stood for parliament three times. At the risk of bringing up a bad memory, each time, you've got fewer votes than the time before. Why do you think that is?
Hopefully it was not my popularity personally. I think it is the way people have viewed politics. It is far more polarised now, and it is far harder for smaller parties to make an impression. Of course, the Liberal Democrats believe in proportional representation. If we had that, the situation for us and other small parties would be very different. The lack of proportional representation, I would attribute to a lot of the problems we are now experiencing both in politics and in the country generally.
It notoriously has a low turnout. Why should people turn out and vote in the Police and Crime Commissioner election?
The main reason is that it is an election, and people should vote in elections. There are many places in the world who do not have any form of democracy, or it is a complete sham. We have seen the Russian elections where people were manipulated into voting, and there was a lot of protests about the way that there were elections there. As you know, the Liberal Democrats do not believe in the position of Police and Crime Commissioner and believe that the position should be abolished, but people should still turn out and vote whilst it is there.
Just to elaborate on that, why don't you agree with the position? Why should it be abolished?
It is a post that could be done and has been done in the past without having an elected official at great expense. I think the cost of police and crime commissioners in the country is well over a £100m. A lot of that money. It could be useful on more police and support officers.
If not an elected official, who should be doing the role?
In so far as it is done, it should be done by a chairman of the committee. There is already such a committee in existence.
If you were elected PCC, would you still stand as the Lib Dem candidate in the general election?
I don’t think I could because you can’t be both.
You are currently the Lib Dem candidate in two upcoming elections. In your mind, is there a preference? If you did win the PCC, would you stand down for the General Election?
If the electorate put their confidence in me to be the Police and Crime Commissioner, then I would feel obliged to carry that on and not stand for parliament.
What can the PCC do to stop funding cuts to Kent Police?
Make as much noise as possible. Unfortunately, the Conservatives are committed to expenditure cuts. As a Lib Dem I might question their motivation in doing so. All one would have to do is point out why it is going to have a bad effect. It's a very difficult position.
According to the indices of deprivation, Medway fares worse for crime. Why do you think Medway residents are at such high risk for crime?
There is a correlation between poverty and crime. Obviously it isn’t automatic. There are people who are in very deprived circumstances but don’t feel that crime is the right way forward, but if you are deprived you may feel you need to cut corners.
Why shouldn't people give another term to Matthew Scott?
Matthew has worked very hard as a Police and Crime Commissioner. I have a lot of respect for what he has done. Obviously, he has been there for two terms and it shouldn’t be a job for life.
Footnotes
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
You can read our previous interviews here, including Steven’s interview with Police and Crime Commissioner Matthew Scott.
If you have lived or worked in Medway and are planning an event or launch in 2024 or celebrating a significant anniversary and would be happy to talk about it here, or if you want to suggest ideas or send tips for people to interview, please email Steven.
Steven Keevil listened to no music whilst writing this but recommends reading The Presidents by Iain Dale.